GINGER WILDHEART - SONGWRITING, SPIRITUALITY AND RECOVERY
James Kennedy interviews rock icon Ginger Wildheart, who discusses his mental health recovery, spiritual awakening, and viewing songwriting as a channel for a higher consciousness. They also touch on living in the present, rising above toxic politics, and Ginger's upcoming album, The Satanic Rites of the Wildhearts, alongside its UK tour.
James Kennedy Joining us today is the unstoppable creative tsunami who has been giving us all the loud medicine for many, many years and shows no sign of slowing down, selling out, or getting soft. I think he's a genius, but he's also an all-around awesome human, and we're very lucky to have him. I'm talking about Mr. Ginger Wildheart. Ginger, how you doing, man?
Ginger Wildheart I'm doing great. I'm having a bit of trouble with my computer, and I narrowly missed cutting my thumb off this morning, chopping some wood. So, you can hear me, and I've still got a thumb, so it's all good.
James Kennedy Well, thank the Lord for that, because if Ginger Wildheart lost a thumb, that would be a fucking devastation for all of us, man. So, hallelujah to that.
Ginger Wildheart If I lost a thumb, I would figure out how to play keyboards. No, actually, I'd just go into fucking management and get rich. Oh, what a thankless task that would be. Well, actually, I'm fucking as much a manager of what I'm doing now as a manager's ever been, only because me and my partner are dealing with everything, and I've had really rubbish managers over the years. So, yeah, it's not lost on me that management is an easy job. It's just delegation.
James Kennedy Right, well, I'm glad you mentioned that, because we're going to come back to that, because I want to ask you about all this stuff to do with the industry and how you release the music and your thoughts on the business and stuff like that. But we've got to first mention, straight out of the gates, the order of business today, which is the new album, The Satanic Rites of the Wild Hearts, which is coming out on March 7th, which is right around the corner. I've heard it. It's fucking brilliant. I'd love to get your lowdown on the record as the man involved in it. Tell us about the new record, what it sounds like, what went into it, how did it come together. Tell us about the record.
Ginger Wildheart Oh, I wish I could make you full screen. But it is what it is. The new album, yeah, man. Oh, it's good. It was written, as will be made more public, I was in hospital, I was sectioned. And I came out of hospital and I had no interest in music whatsoever. For the first time in my life, I had no interest in music. And then a song came and I figured, oh, that's weird, because I couldn't even listen to music. And then a song came and then another one came. Before I knew it, I had an album's worth of stuff.
So I called up a bunch of friends and was like, look, I need to demo this stuff before life takes over, as it has a want to do. And I got John Poole, I got Kavus Torabi, and I got a guy called Cheb Nettles, who calls himself Dudge Gurdon on the record because he changes his name every time he does a new project lesson.
I never write sitting down with a guitar, ever. I complete the songs sitting down with the guitar, but I write walking and get all my ideas walking, being inspired by whatever it is: thoughts, the surroundings, me fucking dog, you know, whatever it is. It doesn't matter. As long as the inspiration is there, then the connection is there. And I believe that is a connection where you're using pure consciousness. And this is what I think artists use to get the statue from that big block of stone. You just chip away what isn't the statue. You're painting until the picture's there that's in your head. But I think the process involves consciousness.
When I'm in tune, when I get inspired, I've got a fucking hotline—hotline to whatever the fuck it is consciousness comes from and however the fuck it works through us. I presume it's the brain being some kind of receiver or router. Then I'm speaking and the language is a common language of music for me. That's the language. And so the music just comes pouring through. And sometimes it's a scramble to get the ideas down before they fucking blow my mind or fuck up somewhere. So I'll just start scrambling. Scribbling down lines, getting the guitar, trying to get the chords down. Will you fucking just hold on a second? There's tons of you and there's only one of me down here.
But I sometimes feel like it's a spiritual committee up there that are piping in these ideas. That's the only explanation why my songs meander all over the fucking place. It's a cross between my mind, as you'll find in the next hour, meandering all over the place, and the fact that there's more than one source of information coming through. So I've always thought of it as being a purely natural thing. And it's never better exemplified than when I'm going through something personal, like an emotional thing or a mental health thing, and I'll get a piece of music or the guitar will just say, you know, "I've got you, pick me up. We've got things to do." And I will. And it'll just come through.
I nail what it is I'm feeling in the song, and then I think, this is fucking magic, this is brilliant, put the song out. If it connects to anyone in any way, then I feel like this is more of a service than a job or a hobby or something like that. If it connects with someone on exactly the same emotional or spiritual or mental level, then it's direct contact. It's communication. It's a language. Again, the language is sprouting off in communication tendrils, if you like, but then I feel this is magic. This is not me just scrabbling a bunch of chords together and trying to palm myself off as the next fucking Noel Gallagher or whatever. This is something that's going on. It's going on through me into something else. And I'm a conduit, or I'm a receiver to spread some kind of communication, whatever the fuck it is.
And believe me, it's been confusing over the years, what the fuck that is. But that's because I'm not understanding the connection between me and it, and it and me, and the message going out there. But the older I get and the more that I do this, the more I realize that it's not just me. And I can't really take credit for all of these songs, even though I will, thankfully, and I'll collect the publishing, and thank you, universe, and thank you, people out there. But yeah, the whole thing, I feel, is bigger than me. And I know that sounds a little bit woo-woo, but it's the only way I can understand or explain how I've written so many fucking songs, because I only know that many chords. I don't even know the names of some of them. Honestly, I'm in the studio and I play a chord, and I'm like, "John, what's that chord?" And he knows all the chords, so he tells me, but I don't know what I'm doing most of the time. And, you know, I'm not a highly educated man, so I've got no right to have that many words and that many subjects.
I feel like the process is bigger than me, but I get inspired by living, by being in the countryside. So I decided when I came out of hospital, look, I'm going to make a big decision here. I'm going to strip myself back to my primal, basic self, and I'm going to build myself up. I'm going to get rid of all of the negativity of my life, step by step. And I'm going to go to that place that I usually go away to write in the countryside. And as soon as I got here, the whole thing started making a bit more sense. Still trying to figure a lot of it out, but the process is starting to make a lot more sense.
James Kennedy That's absolutely fascinating, man. And the fact that you're kind of almost giving a lot of credit to that other place that the inspiration is coming from, which seems to be serving you quite well, mate. It hasn't been rationing it out between you and other people, you know, it's still fucking giving it to you.
Ginger Wildheart I'm sure it's rationing it out, but there's a lot of it. I do believe that we're living life wrong. I believe that most of us, if not all of us, have got some potential we're not tapping into. We've got something that we haven't done, and things are restricting us: our job, or geographically, or emotionally, like being in a relationship that you don't like or with a bunch of mates who are fucking draining you. And not many people have the bravery to go, "Fuck it all, I'm going to get rid of it all, I'm going to start again, I'm going to go wherever I like." For me, it's the countryside. For some people, it's living next door to a train station and making that fucking leap off the cliff and building your wings on the way down.
And that's what I decided to do, and it works. But I think everybody has got this thing that they're not doing and they're not living their life completely. You can't better your life unless you're prepared to take some risks. The higher the risk, the better the dividends.
James Kennedy Beautifully put, brother. Beautifully put. I mean, these are very spiritual answers. I noticed when listening to the new record that there's a lot of that in the lyrics as well, particularly the last track, which is absolutely fantastic, by the way. Is this a new dimension to your life now or have you always been sort of spiritually oriented and some of these things are slotting more into place now at this point in your life?
Ginger Wildheart I've always been spiritual, but the thing is, when I'm drinking, my spirituality vanishes and it's all about me and my internalized anger. I used to have a lot of anger in my life, and I internalized that anger, would drink, and then usually externalize it and fucking piss everyone else off. This thing was just like a huge brick wall that I couldn't see. So I knew there was a spiritual side to me, but how the fuck do you get to that spiritual side, apart from just knowing it's there?
I decided to devote my life to it. When I moved to the countryside, I was like, okay, the first port of call is address this fucking spiritual business. Is it bullshit or is there something going on? Over a period of time, I've managed to figure out pretty much what reality is and what spiritualism is. I've done a lot of reading—more practice than reading—to find out. For instance, I got into spiritualism for up there, stoicism for down here, and the two were brilliant, but again, not 100%.
And this is where people fail: they go into something and go, "Well, I've got to follow every single word." No, you take away from anything what you need, and I'm adopting that process with everything. With my alcohol use for one—most people just go into the program, and then I'd hear every word in the fucking Book of Bill, and I'm like, well, I'm self-aware enough to know that's not me. And I did try it; I went into the program in New York for a year and a half, and I got everything that I could possibly get out of it, and realized what it is in conjecture with my relationship to it, my relationship to alcohol, my relationship to fucking everything. I'm an obsessive, so I do tend to get into things 100%.
James Kennedy Oh God, me too.
Ginger Wildheart And with everything—with stoicism, with Buddhism—I'm just taking out what I can use on my journey forward, and I love it. I think all these answers will be long-winded because I don't know how to do short answers or short songs.
James Kennedy No, we don't want the short answers, we want the fucking juice, man. That's what we want, that's what we're here for. We don't need the soundbites; you can go as long as you want to. I love it. That's why I wanted to talk to you, because you're fascinating for me as an artist, but also as someone who's written openly about my own mental health struggles and everything. In my last book, my forthcoming book, and a lot of my songs and stuff, all of these different areas that I'm interested in on a personal and artistic level, you are living and doing. So I'm fascinated by all of it. Take as long as you need, man.
I wanted to ask you about a lot of the things you've just talked about, like substance use and self-discovery and getting to the root cause of what a lot of your baggage may have been over the years and things like that. You sound like you're in a really good space now, which is amazing to hear. But living the life that you've led and the journey that you've traveled down, what have you learned? What are the real pearls of wisdom that you could share with other people who might not be where you're at in that part of the road yet, who are struggling or battling demons or vices or whatever it is? What are the main core lessons that you could pass on?
Ginger Wildheart Well, if anyone wants to improve their life, the smart thing, the only advice that I would give them, is how to begin. Because once people get overwhelmed, it all goes to shit. I've tried it, especially with mental health problems, but even if you're just stifled, the first step is stop. Stop it all. That's the hardest thing. People have got chatter in their head and distractions all around them. Stop. Your only objective at the beginning is to focus on yourself. You can't see the bigger picture unless you put yourself first.
That's where a lot of people make mistakes. They join a gym and they're intimidated by the muscled people and all of this fucking bullshit that you're told to do. It starts with you. It's a very, very simple concept, but the actual practice is really fucking hard. The good news is the hardest stuff is at the beginning. Once you get over the beginning, you're on your way, and then every day is a school day. You're learning all the fucking time, but you've got to open yourself up to learn. That's where people go wrong, and that's why the advice that people get is such fucking crap.
Basically, I would say: stop what you're doing, get rid of all the negativity. That is enough to be getting on with before you start tackling your own fucking boxes full of shit, which you've got to do. You've got to get really honest with yourself. It's a very, very difficult and ugly process because no one wants to look in those hidden recesses. It's about getting 100% honest with yourself, but you can't even begin the process unless you stop. Stop the fucking world.
James Kennedy Ah, bro, fucking hell, you are dropping some fucking wisdom bombs here, man. This is good shit. So are there any daily practices that you do to maintain homeostasis for yourself? You know, you said you spend time in nature. Are you an exerciser? Do you meditate? Do you have a specific diet thing that you follow? Or what are some other practices that you've found?
Ginger Wildheart Well, it's everything, isn't it? It's everything. At the stage I am—and I've been practicing this intensely for a year and a half—you come a long way in a year and a half. So trying to get it all down now, I think, would be confusing for anyone who can use any of this experience of mine. But I will say that you can't leave anything out. You can't rearrange or change your life and make it work without diet, without exercise, without getting rid of all of those "isms." I had a lot of isms, and now I've still got Buddhism and Stoicism—those are the only two isms left.
It's a fucking hard, ugly process. You've got to look in all of those recesses. I went into my attic when I was ready to do the work before I made the big leap of moving to the countryside, which is a fucking big one in itself—especially for someone like me. They say death, heartbreak, and moving house are the three most stressful fucking things that anyone can go through. So when I found that I was ready to do the work, then it was that personal inventory part, which is fucking horrible, let's face it. I had a huge attic full of boxes full of shit that one day I was going to come back to, like I had a wardrobe full of clothes I was one day going to wear if I ever lost weight. Thankfully, I fit the clothes and the boxes are all fucking empty now, so I got there.
But yeah, it was a case of Jesus, that feeling of being overwhelmed is the thing that puts people off. That's the thing that put me off. So I thought, okay, the first step is the first box. Open up the fucking box, find out what ugly shit is in there, and deal with it. That was the fucking hardest part of this whole process: that first box, that first fucking ugly session with yourself, going into your subconscious, working on your ego. There's all these things that you've got to do with your own spiritual self, which is about understanding the relationship between ego, your subconscious, your conscious, your consciousness, all of this stuff.
Again, it's overwhelming if you try and put too much into something, but the basics are figuring out: get rid of the past and fuck the future. They're really, really hard to do, but in the past, that's where depression lives; in the future, that's where anxiety lives. The only hope you've got is to live in the moment. It's a very simple concept, very hard to do, because you've got to keep reminding yourself that this is all that matters. This is all that will ever matter is the moment.
And then it's practicing, practicing, practicing, getting fit. I went from being very overweight for me, an unfit guy, to now I'm fit as fuck—the fittest I've ever been, mentally and physically. It was all about living in the moment, accepting that you're in control. You're in control of your mental health, even though you've been told for ages from society and from this fucked-up system that we adhere to that the answer is in medicine, the solution is in therapy, that you've got no control, and you need help. It's bullshit. They want to take away your power. The system wants to take away your power, which is why we have newspapers and media where the narrative is structured to take away your power. That's why you get the education that you get—just enough to make you not challenge the system, so you don't answer too many questions and you don't want to be too curious.
We've got more power over our own mental health than we ever thought possible. One of the things I wanted to learn when I went away was what the fuck depression is. I've suffered from it all my life and I still didn't have a clue what it was. I know what it is now, and I know pretty much how to cope with it—enough to know that I'm going to stay alive. That was my biggest problem: a long-term solution to a short-term problem.
You can't even use the word suicide, that's how much of a narrative we've got. "You can't trigger people." You should trigger people, but they should have something that they can go into and go, "Okay, I'm triggered, how do I learn my coping mechanisms and the skills that I've perfected?" They're taking the power away from you so you need them. You don't need them; you don't need anyone but yourself. And obviously, unless you work on yourself, everything around you is fucked. If you're rotten, everything's rotten. If you're hurt, they're hurt.
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James Kennedy That is the most beautiful and concise answer on that whole subject that I've heard in a long, long time. There's so much in there, and I love the fact that you've kept it open for people to explore their own personal experience. What works for them may not work for you and vice versa, because we are given these regimented prescriptions for things, whether it's in a book saying "this is the answer to all of your problems and you have to do this program," et cetera. That's always been a thing for me: some of it resonated and some of it didn't, and then you get confused. The fact that you're saying, "Hey look, just explore this, figure out what works for yourself, take your time, but do the work," I think that's really, really powerful and inspiring. Thank you for sharing that, man.
Ginger Wildheart Well, I always think to myself: the solution is hard work, but so is the fucking problem. The problem is really hard work, except you'll learn fuck all from the problem, while you'll learn a lot from looking for the solution. But yeah, everybody's got to treat this like their fucking fingerprint. Everyone needs a finely tuned version to fit their own life, and that's where people go wrong: they read a book and follow the book.
If anyone wants to improve their life, I'll tell you what book to get. It's by Eckhart Tolle, it's called The Power of Now, and you'll learn everything in there that you need to get started. It gets a little bit airy-fairy from time to time, but the basics are there. Again, you've got to start with the basics. You can't look at your body and go, "I want to get fit," when there's so far to go, because it's about work. Even when you get there, you've still got to do the work; you've still got to be in the now. Learning how to be in the now is a great lesson for the future. Talk about coping skills—that's the best one.
James Kennedy Amazing. Well, you're not the first person to recommend that book to me. I've got it downstairs and I haven't read it, so now I'm going to make that the first thing I do today is to read that book, because a lot of people have told me that's changed their life. So there's another referral.
Ginger Wildheart I would recommend also the audio book because he's got a nice, relaxing voice, and a lot of it goes in. He does recommend that you don't listen to or read every word, because the message still goes in—don't get bogged down with the details. I find the audio book, at least for me, worked much better because subliminally, more was going in.
James Kennedy Okay, that's really good to know. One of the things that I always thought about as a creative person, because I write quite dark, heavy music talking about politics, social issues, and the darker sides of human nature, and I've had a lot of my own struggles with stress, alcohol, fucking anger, depression, and anxiety... I've always felt that if I take too much of that away, will it affect my creativity? I don't want to be the guy that's like, "Hey, there's a genocide happening, but that's okay, man, because I don't want to get stressed out about it." I didn't want to lose the anger that we should rightfully have in an unjust society. But listening to your latest album makes me realize that this transformation that you've had, that's made you much happier and healthier, has not affected your creativity at all. The new album fucking slams, man.
Ginger Wildheart It comes back to starting with yourself. I was an angry, angry motherfucker, and I thought what you've got to do with that anger is let people know what you think. I was a socialist all my life. When I believed there was a world that would eventually work together, I was a socialist. When I realized that's never going to fucking happen—and not only is it not going to happen, it's not important... One of the important things I learned is that if you can change it, change it; if you can't change it, fuck it.
For me, I was like, "Yeah, but what about the fucking injustices?" But I was stapling myself to the past, to my old self, to my old anger. The thing that people forget is in anger, in any extreme emotion, there's a comfort. That's your ego pulling you back to where it knows the parameters. My anger was a comfort because I was just like, "Fuck you all, I'm angry."
The hard bit, the scary bit, is getting involved in trying to ask: what about love? What about peace? What about actual peace? What about being a purveyor of love and peace? As an angry punk rock motherfucker, that's the most scary thing in the fucking world. "Well, I'm going to be soft." I'm not soft. Once you go through this process of getting rid of the anger but keeping the passion, that passion doesn't go. That sense of injustice doesn't go.
What you find is you can't do anything apart from yell from the outside, unless you're in there in the matrix finding what it is that you can do. How can you help if you really want to help, rather than just throw stones at it? I've found that reality has a limitation, while spiritualism has no limitation.
James Kennedy Just for the clarity of the people listening, Ginger's moving his hands: for reality, he's moving them side to side to show a linear direction; for spirituality, he's showing up and down to show infinite depth, I suppose.
Ginger Wildheart Now, in reality, if you've got no spiritualism, let's call it a circle. That's reality: a circle. The edges—which is where I used to like living—are where the dark recesses, the fucking pissed off punk rockers, and fucking angry motherfuckers live. It's a comfort. I'm backed up against this, I know where I am, I know how to deal with this. Getting involved in that splurge of stuff, I've got no safety, I've got no fucking weapons, I'm literally a virgin, a baby going into there and learning all the time.
It wasn't until I started living in the middle that I realized that living on the outside is what the system wants. They want you to be driven to an extreme point of view, an extreme narrative. That's why you find people can't converse anymore: they tell you what they think, nobody's learning anything, and no one's actually conversing. Again, it's comfortable to be ignorant. There is a comfort in ignorance, which is why most people will be willfully ignorant, no matter what the cause is. "I'm extreme and you can't change my mind." Well, there you go, you're going to learn fuck all, you're a spiritual bottom feeder.
That's where the power is: when you go from the edges into the real stuff. The ideal is to get to the middle where you're in control of all the duplicity, the opposites. I want to be in control of my male and female, my hate and my love. I want that yin and yang thing, that Baphomet thing; I want to be completely divided and understand it in all of the extremes.
It takes a lot of bravery to escape from the comfort of your own fucking hatred and ask, "What else am I? What is the complete me?" And it ain't hatred, I'll tell you that for one. And it ain't just blind love, "love the earth and don't eat animals," because most of those militant people brigade. You find something that you like, great, but when they push it on other people, it's a fucking religion—whether it's veganism, alcoholism, politics, or fucking UFOs, which has now turned into its own fucking religion. Once you start pushing it on other people, it's a religion, you're a cult.
James Kennedy Amen, brother, fucking amen! I could listen to these rants all day, dude. Jesus Christ, no, I love it, please don't apologize. I'm really glad that the conversation went in this direction and you're dropping some serious fucking wisdom here, man. This is really good information for everyone listening, I think it's going to be really helpful, so thank you.
I promise we'll get back to talking about the fantastic new Wild Hearts record really soon, but just one more point on this subject before we move on to that: you said that you used to be a socialist, and I wanted to ask you how your politics now fit in with the way that you're living your life now in this spiritual dimension. Because we're living in crazy times, man. You look at what's happening in Gaza, Trump is back, Elon Musk is now some political visionary, and look at what Keir Starmer is doing with the Labour Party. There's a lot to be fucking angry and pissed off about. So how does that fit in with your life now as a socialist or former socialist, whilst not disturbing the spiritual peace and equilibrium that you've found?
Ginger Wildheart I nearly went mad when the Gaza thing started. It affected me to such a point where I was arguing with people and fell out with my mother. All these things inhibit my growth. I found for me anyway, the only way to deal with politics is to ignore it. Hardest thing in the world, because you think, "If I ignore it, it's not going to go away." No, it isn't going to go away, but is there anything you can do about it? If you've got no control over that situation, you have to ignore it.
It was a habit of mine to get absorbed in politics, so I had to break that habit and develop a new habit of, "Fuck it, you can't change anything." Since I started doing that, ignoring what's going on with politics... I would be in a nuthouse, in jail, or in the ground if I took all of this shit seriously. Hitler's being normalized—that's all you need to know. The swastika is now a conversation piece where people ask, "Was Hitler wrong? Are the Jews evil?" That's what people are talking about now. I got out at the right fucking time because it was going to drive me mental.
For me, that's the only way I can deal with what's going on in the world: if I've got no control over it, it's nothing to do with my personal story. I've got to focus on my personal story and living in the moment. You live in the moment, that's all there is. The future is none of my business; the past is none of my business. The fact that the right wing are regurgitating all this loathsome shit—it's the past, it's none of my business.
So my way of stopping myself from being driven insane by politics is to stop expecting the world to change, stop expecting the picture to get better. It ain't getting better, this is the way it's going to go. I personally think there is a shift where the world of politics in the next two years is going to be so unrecognizable from what we know now—certainly from what we expected going from the past, what the left wing meant, what socialism hoped for, and what peace hoped to be. It ain't happening.
Knowing that it's all going to go to shit, it's pointless getting involved. I think this shift that's going to happen in the next two years is going to develop spiritually for people who are of that mentality. The world of spirituality is going to change completely, involving higher spiritual development. The spiritual bottom feeders, the people literally on the ground fueling these fires of discontent, are going to suffer.
I believe that we're all the universe experiencing itself, but some people are meant to experience things on a higher level and some on a lower, base level—that's how the universe experiences the duality, the opposites. This shift, I believe, is coming now. We're already seeing it and spiritual people are already feeling it, but politically you're looking at it in action: the rise of the right. We never thought this was going to happen and it's normalized now. Kanye is talking about swastikas, Hitler's in the news... it's fucking crazy, it's madness, the mad people are taking over.
James Kennedy Let them. Maybe things have to go through these revolutions, you know? Maybe it needs to get to boiling point, there's an explosion of some kind, and then things resettle and it starts again. Do you believe in that sort of idea?
Ginger Wildheart I don't care, because that's way in the future, and I literally don't care about the future, just like I literally don't care about the past. It's not in my interests. "I don't care" is the wrong terminology, but it's not in my interests. My interests are to fix myself and to stay alive—that's number one. Until I get really good at that, there is no number two; that's the only priority in my life.
James Kennedy Love it, love it. That's such great wisdom, man. Looking at the clock now, I can't keep you for too much longer, and I want to loop it back to music because you've covered so much stuff in the past 20 minutes. Honestly, I wouldn't expect the conversation to go into that area, but I'm really glad that it did, because people could relisten to that on so many different levels.
I want to loop it back to talk about the music industry quickly before we bring it back to the album, because you've seen some seismic shifts in the music industry. You started back with Earth vs The Wildhearts on a major label, you've done an independent label, you've done your own label, and throughout that whole time the music industry changed with digital, streaming, and people not buying as much music as they used to. But you're still here, still doing your thing, kicking, and putting stuff out. What are your thoughts on the music industry now with the changes? Is it better, is it worse, what are the pros and cons, and how do you feel about the state of the music industry today?
Ginger Wildheart Change is inevitable. Bob Dylan started playing electric—change is inevitable. If you're going to fight for nostalgia or for the way that it used to be, you're over. Unless you can roll with the punches, you're over. I've always rolled with the punches—not always the most gallant and charismatic roll, sometimes I fell flat on my face, but I've always got up. I don't believe people remember you falling down; I think people just remember you getting back up.
The challenge has been keeping myself excited. That's the only thing you can hope for as a musician. Everything that I've ever done has been as a reaction to things going wrong. Now that I look at it and I'm still doing this while people go, "Oh, you're still here doing it," I'm like, no, I just didn't give up, I'm just too fucking stubborn to fuck off. That's my secret.
I always kept myself interested and excited about the next thing, whether it was starting up a new record company, writing a book, or doing my thing. I've always done things that terrify me. Someone asked, "How the fuck do you write a book?" So I said, "I'm going to write a book." "How the fuck do you do spoken word—90 minutes talking?" So I decided to do that because it's terrifying. I started playing acoustic because I used to see people by themselves on a stage and think, "Fair play, I cannot do that... What am I talking about? I can do that." I learned to play drums so I don't have to always wait for a drummer to be available, because I'm a busy motherfucker. I taught myself all the stuff that I didn't know.
The difference between me and a lot of musicians is I don't mind looking like a bit of an idiot. When you start something brand new, like doing the first podcast and you're literally nervous like you used to feel before you went on stage—that's the feeling that I always try and keep in my life. If I'm too complacent, if it doesn't scare me a little bit, I'm doing it wrong, whatever it is. The only reason I've been able to maintain my presence is by always trying to do things that I haven't got a clue how to do, and learning.
The business is changing, and people get too bogged down in the changes and what they liked in the past. "I like tape." Yeah, I like tape. I hated when things went digital, but take AI for example: it's crazy to think that you can fight AI. You're just a crazy old person throwing rocks from the comfortable perimeters of reality. So, I keep myself young by keeping myself excited.
James Kennedy I love that, man, beautiful. I was going to ask you about AI, actually, but I think I've got a feel for your philosophy on this, which is probably along the lines of: well, it's in the future and I can't do anything about it, so fuck it, am I right?
Ginger Wildheart Exactly. I used to be of the disposition that AI will never take over because it has no consciousness or awareness. But our consciousness doesn't come from us, it comes from something else. If it wants to put consciousness into AI, it fucking will. It doesn't matter what we think is going to happen, the future is going to be the future, and none of us know what the fuck it is. To get involved in that is crazy. Right now, AI is looking like it's going to do well and it's a new paradigm—you've got to embrace it, but don't focus on it, it's none of your business. It's the fucking future. Fuck the future.
James Kennedy Love it. Fuck the future. Well, we got to talk about the future, unfortunately, after that perfect ender to a beautiful rant, because I want to ask you what the future is holding for yourself and The Wild Hearts. The new record's coming out in a matter of weeks and you've got a badass tour coming up. What's the rest of the year looking like and beyond? Are there any plans, or are you just on the train to see where it stops?
Ginger Wildheart Well, now I've got to rein myself in, because I get these glimpses of how things are going to go in the future and, being an obsessive, I can get caught up in it. I've got to ground myself into the moment.
The immediate future is March: spring arrives, the album comes out, and the tour starts, and that's enough to be excited about. So I've got myself in good shape for the tour, mentally and physically. There's some really fun stuff going to happen that we're still trying to figure out, but it's going to be a great show. I know people are uncomfortable with change and bands changing makes people uncomfortable, so my job now is to show people, "It's okay, we've got this, don't worry about it." Do you like the songs? That's really the only thing you need to get into, and if you won't listen to the music because it's a different lineup, then we're going to lose you. It happens, you lose people along the way.
For the near future, I couldn't be more excited. I've been sitting on this album for a very long time. In April, we go in to start writing, arranging, and demoing the next album. I've got the next album pretty much formulated in my head: what it's going to be, how it's going to be perceived, and how we're going to approach it.
That's just because I'm living in the moment and getting little signs. Instead of anxiety about the future, I'm getting little signs. I don't believe that time is linear; I believe that it's all squished together. We think it's linear because we're trapped in a 3D world, but in the fourth dimension, time's not linear. I don't believe in time and space as being fundamentals; I believe consciousness is a fundamental, in which case we're not limited by time and space.
So yeah, I get these little glimpses of how things are going. I've had that my whole life. I used to imagine a dog's face—a Border Collie with little bits of brown in there, I swear this is the truth—and now she's in my life and she saved my life.
I thought of this the other day: when I was little, about four years old, I used to get out of my body and float around the house. An out-of-body experience—a lot of people experience this. I could feel the carpet on the stairs on my chest, so it felt like I had a physical form to my four-year-old mind. I used to float around the house, and I remembered and described the house perfectly to my mom, who was like, "Yeah, that's right." We had an old stereogram—a big stereo in a box on legs—and I used to go in and out of the legs thinking, "This is great, I'm small enough to get in and out of these things."
We had a fireplace with a huge mirror on top, and I went to look at myself in the mirror. It's hard to describe, but I was a white, fiery humanoid thing with my face, but an older face. I went through my life wondering what it was—aliens, a ghost, fuck knows. Then I had this glimpse the other day: boom, that was you from the future telling you it's going to be okay, telling you there's something else you don't need to worry about.
Which is what the song "Blooming Over Brinkburn" is about. I had a very violent, upsetting childhood, and this gave me something to cling onto—a little bit of hope. "Blooming Over Brinkburn" is about those times in your life where you think, "This is it, this is forever." Once you start realizing that time isn't linear, it doesn't matter what happens, it's temporary. The good or the bad, it's temporary, everything is temporary. This was me letting myself know—I might have been asleep dreaming, or it might have been me from the future going, "It's okay, everything's okay, you've just got to hang about till the punchline." That's what I follow now: stick around for the punchline, because there will be a punchline. This is just a very nuanced joke and the punchline's coming at some point, so stick around for it.
James Kennedy Fucking beautiful, that is fucking beautiful, amen, man! Honestly, you were dropping some fucking truth bombs on this, and I'm really, really glad that you've gone into these areas with us, man, rather than just talking about rock and roll, because this is seriously useful stuff and inspirational as well. Thank you, man. You've verbalized these concepts so well, concisely, and simply that it makes a lot of sense, which I know is going to really help and inspire a lot of people listening. We appreciate you for doing that, man. Thank you, bro, and I'm so glad to hear that you're doing so well in yourself and physically as well. The music is still flowing and the new album rocks, so I couldn't be happier to see all of that stuff. Thank you so much.
Ginger Wildheart Thank you, James, this was a lot of fun, thank you.
James Kennedy We gotta plug the promo shit, we gotta tick that box as well to keep the PR companies happy. So, the new album, Satanic Rites of the Wild Hearts, is coming out March 7th. It is available to pre-order everywhere now, but if you go to thewildhearts.com, you can grab a super sexy colored vinyl, CD, and cassette versions of the album, as well as exclusive t-shirts, so go and get a bundle at the site now. Please do follow Ginger on his personal Instagram @gingerwildheart. You also mentioned that you're now doing a podcast over on Patreon, which people should definitely support, at patreon.com/gingerwildheart. Get over there, get involved, pre-order the new album.
They are touring all over the fucking place, kicking off on March 7th, stopping in Sheffield, Cambridge, Manchester, Glasgow, Southampton, all over the fucking place. Get your tickets at thewildhearts.com, get to a show, you will not be disappointed. The new album fucking rocks. Ginger, thank you so much for stopping by and chatting with us, man. Like I said, you're an inspiration, you're a dude, you got a lot of love out there, and I'm glad to see you doing better than ever, bro. I will see you at one of the shows, man.
Ginger Wildheart Thank you, it was an honor, thank you.
Key Points:
The guest is Ginger Wildheart, a musician the host has admired for decades, appearing to discuss his new album "The Satanic Rites of the Wild Hearts," out March 7th.
Ginger wrote the album after being sectioned in hospital, when he had lost all interest in music and songs unexpectedly began arriving.
He describes creativity as a spiritual process in which he acts as a conduit or receiver, channeling ideas from a source larger than himself.
After leaving hospital, Ginger rebuilt his life by moving to the countryside, quitting alcohol, and removing negativity step by step.
His core advice is to stop, focus on yourself first, get brutally honest, and take only what you need from any philosophy rather than following it dogmatically.
He argues people have more power over their own mental health than the system admits, and that living in the present moment is the key to escaping depression and anxiety.
Ginger says he now ignores politics he cannot change, keeps his passion but releases his anger, and stays excited by constantly doing things that scare him.
Summary:
This podcast episode features host James Kennedy in conversation with musician Ginger Wildheart, primarily promoting his new album "The Satanic Rites of the Wild Hearts," released March 7th. Kennedy opens by apologizing for abandoning video episodes, explaining he wants listeners to spend less time staring at screens and focus on the content of conversations instead.
Ginger reveals the album was written after he was sectioned in hospital and temporarily lost all interest in music. Songs began arriving unexpectedly, which he attributes to a spiritual process where he acts as a conduit rather than the sole creator. He discusses moving to the countryside, quitting alcohol, and rebuilding himself mentally, physically, and spiritually.
Much of the conversation centers on mental health and self-improvement. Ginger advises listeners to stop, focus on themselves first, get honest about their baggage, and take only what serves them from philosophies like Stoicism and Buddhism. He recommends Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" and stresses living in the present, since depression lives in the past and anxiety in the future.
On politics, Ginger says he now ignores what he cannot change, keeping his passion but releasing his anger. He discusses the changing music industry, arguing musicians must keep themselves excited and embrace change rather than fight it. He also touches on AI, time, consciousness, and a childhood out-of-body experience he now interprets as a message from his future self. The episode closes with tour and album promotion details.
The James Kennedy Podcast is a Society and Culture podcast hosted by musician and author, James Kennedy. Exploring the big questions around health, social issues, the arts, politics, mental health, the human condition and how to navigate this thing called life through casual conversations with scientists, activists, rock stars, philosophers and academics. Please subscribe, leave a rating and support the show.
